Author Topic: Digital Natives: Education Systems Failure  (Read 1511 times)

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bRUCE

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Digital Natives: Education Systems Failure
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:53:02 PM »
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I posted a stellar comment regarding Marc Presnky's : Digital Natives, Digital Immigrants essay.
He touches some serious points the academic and educational systems need to sit up for and take note of.

Educating needs to remain an organized and structured system to make the most out of learning time
available to students before they enter the job market. If students start to take education in to their own hands
maximum potential will be lost, this even though these guys are learning themselves they do it at a much slower pace
as they are not equipped with everything the would like to know and should know - they have to go look for it.

Remember the guys have not become infinitely smarter - the educational system is just lacking.

On the other hand,

I like how he hints at the physical brain structure having changed. In 1 generation??
Look, I see where he is coming from. Can I put this in an analogy?

Let's say Keisha is a 1st generation born Indian girl. Her dad can speak the English tongue, but with a thick central
New-York caffee owner accent. You know the typical "Thank you come again" kind of pronunciation.

Keisha is brought up mostly among Americans and learns to speak USA just like Paris Hilton. Are their tongues differently shaped?
Did they mutate in 1 generation?

English in this case is the new way of thinking and indian the old. Except there is a profound difference between Language and way of thought...
And I can see why this will have far reaching benefits to mankind as we need new ways of thinking to fix our father's stuff-up's.

Good read Jacques - keep 'em coming.

http://digitalnatives.co.za/welcome-and-introductions/who-are-we/?action=dlattach;attach=20
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 04:45:03 PM by bRUCE »
Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

Jason

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 04:55:33 PM »
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my, my what an interesting article. I actually wondered about all of that and I was going to get off my ass and actually ask about this sort of thing.
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bRUCE

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 08:41:24 AM »
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Indeed Jason. I've never really considered the full consequences of people starting to think differently.
Educational systems will need to be changed a hell of a lot to accommodate these guys. Can you imagine
what will come from the first generation to be taught by a system compatible with their minds?

What is the link between this and "problems" such as ADD/ADHD etc...?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 08:42:59 AM by bRUCE »
Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

Epsilon

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 11:47:15 AM »
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Indeed Jason. I've never really considered the full consequences of people starting to think differently.
Educational systems will need to be changed a hell of a lot to accommodate these guys. Can you imagine
what will come from the first generation to be taught by a system compatible with their minds?

What is the link between this and "problems" such as ADD/ADHD etc...?

That is a great point raised Bruce.

I recently remarked to someone that every second kid in school these days seems to be on Ritalin because they have ADD etc.
I thought it was absolute nonsense that so many kids could possibly require Ritalin just to do their schooling.

Perhaps you have stuck at the root of the cause here.
The kids are "digital natives" sitting in an outdated educational system that has not adapted to them, rather than the other way around.
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Jason

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 11:59:35 AM »
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I agree

some scary shit, most of the kids I know from family and friends have had altercations with the schools because the teachers say the kid has got ADHD, needs Ritalin, etc......

I am nonetheless ready for my kids' teachers. As it is, we seem to unfortunately have a gifted child on our hands  :(
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Jacques

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 12:04:12 PM »
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I recently remarked to someone that every second kid in school these days seems to be on Ritalin because they have ADD etc.
I thought it was absolute nonsense that so many kids could possibly require Ritalin just to do their schooling.

Perhaps you have stuck at the root of the cause here.
The kids are "digital natives" sitting in an outdated educational system that has not adapted to them, rather than the other way around.

I don't think that's the cause - or at least not the only one. The parents shoulder most of the blame, as does the pharmaceutical industry for creating need in order to sell products. Regarding the parents, they are victims of what's been extensively written up as the "risk society" - prone to panic, to assuming that there are dangers everywhere, and to neglecting their own responsibilities in avoiding those (real or imagined) dangers.

We've always had kids who can't focus, etc. That used to be considered normal. Parents have now decided (and been persuaded that) it's not normal, and now they give them drugs instead of just waiting it out, like parents have for many prior generations. Now that you've been introduced to this concept of the digital native, be very wary of the easy assumption that it answers all these questions. It may be part of the answer, but there are other answers that come before it, and make more sense.
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Epsilon

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 12:05:52 PM »
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I agree

some scary shit, most of the kids I know from family and friends have had altercations with the schools because the teachers say the kid has got ADHD, needs Ritalin, etc......

I am nonetheless ready for my kids' teachers. As it is, we seem to unfortunately have a gifted child on our hands  :(

My brother had that same argument with the school and his wife at one stage.
I definitely think there is a link here...
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bRUCE

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 06:05:11 PM »
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Yup - the pharmaceutical industry is creating a generation of PD diagnosed ADD'ers.
There is a marked difference between having clinical ADD and most of the "ADD'ers" normal GP's diagnose.

They think they are doing children a favor putting them on drugs closely resembling cocaine - yes Methylphenidate has
more or less the same effects that cocaine has.

According to Otto rank about 1 out of 10 people suffer from real "clinical" "add" - which are just the dumb terms the medical
world labeled this "problem".

I'll start an ADD thread so we don't confuse this and go off topic by not discussing the OT.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 09:46:18 PM by bRUCE »
Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

Jason

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 08:50:01 AM »
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Thanks Bruce I appreciate that. You are absolutely right of course.
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bRUCE

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Re: Let's get down and dirty with Digital Natives
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 04:42:04 PM »
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Jacques - Since you are an academic I was hoping for your take on where education needs to go on this?
What needs to change and when do you suppose it will happen, should it happen?

 
Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

Jacques

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Re: Digital Natives: Education Systems Failure
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 05:22:15 PM »
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Bruce, as I hint at in reply #5, it's not obvious to me that the education system needs to change in response to this issue. While my experiences in lecturing from the past 16 years have given me reason to believe that the nature of students has changed, and caused me to adapt how I teach, it has not necessitated too much change in content, and has a complex relationship to content delivery.

To be more clear: In terms of style and pedagogical approach, students respond more to visual stimuli than before. So while I used to be able to walk around the lecture hall, simply talking, now they appear to "need" PowerPoint presentations to stay focused. They also respond well to video clips illustrating the themes of a lecture. So here we see the impact of them being products of a digital society. However, it's still often the case that I can keep them interested in a long, quite abstract talk, without any of those visual aids. So they haven't so much lost the ability to engage with words, as much as lost the ability/desire to discipline themselves, and direct their attention.

The primary problem we have in SA (besides the obvious ones around resourcing schools) is OBE. Education is not about defined outcomes. It's about developing a worldview, and a relationship to evidence/data, which allows you to separate quality content from bunk. So before we try to turn out a worker bee, we need to focus on intellectual attributes. Once those are in place, you can choose to apply your intellectual abilities to whatever field is attractive to you. So I'm talking about focusing on critical thinking, close reading, composition and those sorts of traditional humanities skills. Without those, you're crippled intellectually, no matter how good a stockbroker, lawyer, politician you are.

So what needs to change is to get the focus back to basics. It's not going to happen, though, because of political expediency on the part of government. As a mostly 3rd-world country, we're in a race with other developing nations to provide the technical labour force for global markets. We also want to fix unemployment problems, and the approach taken has been to try to quickly and massively upskill people so that they can participate in those markets. That's fine to an extent, as not everyone needs or wants a tertiary education. But for those who do want it, they get to university and don't have the basic skills they need.

The obvious consequence? We fail plenty of them, or we lower our standards. But guess what: university funding is based on throughput, so failing them (and maintaining standards) is not really an option. Plus, there's the political nightmare of educational discrimination along race lines, meaning that a large proportion of those you fail are black, which looks bad, and gets a different sort of heat from government.

Lastly, the future nightmare that is being set up is a country with a large workforce, who all have technical skills, but with very few people left who can play the roles of visionaries or leaders, due to the fact that education has become this pragmatic thing.

My solution would be to pour lots of money into the technical schools and technicons, which is where the majority of people would choose to go (more jobs, lower fees for education, more international mobility). Leave universities to be what they were designed to be: elitist institutions. Plus, of course, to scrap OBE.
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bRUCE

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Re: Digital Natives: Education Systems Failure
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 06:00:20 PM »
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Thanks for that reply Jacques.
I am worried about the future of our nation's intellectual wellbeing. Everybody is being fed a weak diluted soup of information just to enable them to be skilled workhorses.

Another cumbersome aspect of this is: What will it do to morals, never mind skills and knowledge? (referring to OBE)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 06:04:58 PM by bRUCE »
Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

Jacques

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Re: Digital Natives: Education Systems Failure
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 06:16:58 PM »
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Another cumbersome aspect of this is: What will it do to morals, never mind skills and knowledge? (referring to OBE)

I don't see why it would do anything different to morals - that's a kind of knowledge, like any other, and if knowledge suffers, moral reasoning might too. Curiously, though, here we have a slight upside of current education policy - the new policy on religion education in schools (mostly limiting religion education) could improve moral reasoning, as people will get taught less dogma.
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bRUCE

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Re: Digital Natives: Education Systems Failure
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 09:44:52 PM »
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Because let's face it - being taught the world was made in 7 days in bible class, only to be contrasted by being taught that the world evolved in science class is rather confusing shit. And it is completely non conducive to Logical reasoning. Why should kids be brain fried for 12 years by stuff like people turning in to salt?
Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

WHIT3FOX

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Re: Digital Natives: Education Systems Failure
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2011, 04:58:50 PM »
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Well school syllabus aside i do think that being a "digital native" has something to do with the need for education to change. I'm 19, so i consider myself a part of this generation that has learned to navigate the web and speaks in that wonderful language known as IM speech :)

Some kids just are ADD, i don't think that the drug companies are promoting it at all. People just see an energetic child and immediatley put him on ritalin instead of using that as a last resort kind of option. Education does have to adapt to the new mindsets that we think with though. Because even if our brains haven't physically changed, the way we use them has, resulting in us wanting everything faster and easier, just like the article says.

Implementing this in our society will be hard though as Goverment doesn't seem able/willing to fund programs like this. And before we can even sort that out we need to first get enough teachers into schools accross our country, as in some areas one teacher teaches 3 different grades in the same classroom "0_0". It's a long road ahead of us...